Exploring Switzerland with Carolyn Schönafinger (from Holidays to Switzerland)

Topics covered

  • Most popular tourist destinations in Switzerland
  • The different seasons and when to visit
  • Less popular destinations for an authentic experience
  • Outdoor activities in Switzerland
  • Great rainy-day activities
  • Money-saving tips for travellers

Who We're Speaking With

Carolyn Schönafinger first visited Switzerland over 30 years ago and it was love at first sight! Since that first visit there have been many, many more and Carolyn now visits Switzerland every year to visit new destinations and old favourites, try new experiences, eat cheese and chocolate, and enjoy the wonderful scenery. She is on a quest to explore every inch of the country!

Carolyn’s passion is helping travellers to plan their dream trip to Switzerland. She shares her extensive knowledge and experience of Swiss travel on both HolidaysToSwitzerland.com and the Holidays to Switzerland Travel Podcast.

About the Episode

You can visit Switzerland year-round. It’s a great destination for winter and summer sports, but those two seasons tend to be busy. If you want a quieter experience, consider travelling in May and October.

Some popular destinations:

  • Lucerne: This city is conveniently located in the heart of Switzerland, and it features historic sights like the Chapel Bridge. You can access mountains like Mount Pilatus and Mount Rigi easily from Lucerne.
  • The Berner Oberland: You’re in the heart of the Bernese Alps here. There are lots of traditional chalet-style buildings, and you can see the famous Jungfraujoch.
  • Zermatt: This town is located at the foot of the Matterhorn, so it’s a spectacular destination. There are also lots of historic chalets.
  • Montreux: This French-speaking town has a different, more Mediterranean vibe. It’s located on Lake Geneva and has a famous promenade. From Montreux, you can visit the Chillon castle and several other towns.

Some lesser-known places to visit:

  • Schaffhausen: A lot of tourists visit the Rhine Falls, but many of them don’t take a closer look at the nearby town, which features beautiful old buildings. There is also a fortress you can visit.
  • Lake Constance: This lake borders three countries, so you can take a boat from Switzerland to Germany.
  • Appenzell: A very rural area, where you can still find traditional Swiss farms and restaurants. There is a biannual Yodel Festival.
  • The Emmental Valley: This is a scenic area of Switzerland that features rolling hills and open fields, with the mountains in the distance. You can visit the famous Emmental cheese factory.


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Kathrin: Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Living in Switzerland. This series is brought to you by Rigby. We are a staffing and project services company based in Zurich. If you or anyone you know of is looking for a new role in Switzerland or if you're looking to hire, let us know. We'd be happy to help.

The best way to do that is by going to rigby.ch/apply and filling out the form. Then if we have anything that might be of interest, we'll gladly let you know. Today we are joined by Carolyn Schönafinger from Holidays to Switzerland. Carolyn first visited Switzerland over 30 years ago and it was love at first sight.

Since that first visit, there have been many, many more, and Carolyn now visits Switzerland every year to visit new destinations and old favourites, try new experiences, eat cheese and chocolate, and enjoy the wonderful scenery. She is on a quest to explore every inch of the country. Carolyn's passion is helping travellers to plan their dream trip to Switzerland.

She shares her extensive knowledge and experience of Swiss travel on both holidaystoswitzerland.com and the Holidays to Switzerland Travel Podcast. Carolyn, welcome to the show.

Carolyn: Thank you, Kathrin. It's lovely to be here.

Kathrin: Excellent. So can you tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do?

Carolyn: Sure. Well I'm an Australian, which some of your listeners might find a bit strange that someone from Australia is so passionate about visiting Switzerland, but I guess it all happened because my first job actually out of school was as a travel agent. And I was lucky enough to travel quite a lot for work and 30 something, 36, I think it is, years ago I set off on my first trip to Europe, and yeah, Switzerland was the highlight, so we can talk more about that in a moment, but based on sort of, I guess, my experience being a travel agent… When I stopped working and had my children, I wanted to sort of keep my involvement, but I wanted to be at home with my kids.

So I actually started a website, which was at the time about travelling to Europe and I did that for a number of years. Then, so I guess it was like a blog in a way where I wrote articles about things to do it in different destinations and how to get around and so forth. My husband is originally from Germany so we were fortunate to travel quite frequently, even when our kids were small, to Europe so I had that first hand experience and yeah, it was just great to be able to share my experiences and help other travellers along the way.

Then in 2019 I decided, well, Switzerland is my real passion. That's what I love writing about and talking about. So I started a Switzerland-specific website, holidaystoswitzerland.com. And that came out just before the pandemic. So very bad timing, October 2019. No one could travel, but it gave me, I guess, a good chance to write lots of articles and have them all ready for when travel got happening again.

And also during that period of the pandemic, I started my podcast. It was a great way to keep people interested, I guess in Switzerland and planning to visit there, giving them ideas and tips for when travel resumed.

Kathrin: Right. And I think during the pandemic, a lot of people, they couldn't travel, but they liked to plan their next trip or just think about their next trip.

So it sounds like it was bad timing, but at the same time, people had a lot of time to plan, I suppose.

Carolyn: That's right. I mean, I think a lot of podcasts really took off or actually started during the pandemic and people were able to travel, you know, vicariously through the podcast episodes, so that was great.

Kathrin: That's right. And then it's twice as amazing later to get to see it yourself. If you've listened to it before.

Carolyn: Yeah. That's right.

Kathrin: So let's talk a little bit more about that first visit or your first few visits to Switzerland. So, what was your first impression when you got there and why did you end up falling in love with the country and making it, sort of, your career?

Carolyn: Well, I was very young and I was on a Contiki tour, which, you know, is for 18 to 35. So it was a bit of a bit of a party kind of tour, I guess, although I was not really into partying and nightclubs and so on. But I joined this tour and it was a 14-day trip around Europe. So you can imagine it was quite, very busy, but our second stop on the tour was Lauterbrunnen.

And it was just such an amazing introduction, I think, to Switzerland as the bus, you know, drove through the winding roads there between Interlaken and Lauterbrunnen. You've got those sheer cliffs on either side of you and the mountains all around. I was just blown away by the spectacular scenery. And I think it was at that moment that I fell in love with Switzerland and I thought, this is not going to be my only visit here. I'm definitely coming back, and fortunately I've been able to do that many times.

Kathrin: Amazing. Yeah. So it was mainly the scenery at first that stood out to you.

Carolyn: Yeah, I think so. it's so different to Australia. You know, I don't live by the beach, but you know, we're known for our beaches and the ocean sort of lifestyle, but the mountains and the lakes and just those lush green pastures everywhere in Switzerland. It's so different to what we have here. And it's just so spectacular.

Kathrin: That's right. Yeah. I was speaking to a visitor the other day and he said, well, where else in the world, maybe there are two or three places in the world where you can really see those massive mountains, just, you know, sitting on a train and you just look at these massive 4,000 - 5,000 meter mountains. And that's not, you know, if you grow up in Switzerland, you think it's normal or you just don't see it.

You don't even look at them. But actually, when you think about it, that's quite, something quite special.

Carolyn: Yeah, it is. It is. Yeah, definitely.

Kathrin: So, obviously, in Switzerland, there are a lot of popular tourist destinations, which are all, you know, very worthwhile and worth seeing. But if you want to maybe visit them at a quiet time or avoid them, even if you're, visiting the country during a busy season, what are maybe the top destinations that you would consider very busy?

Carolyn: Yeah, I think the most popular destinations would definitely be Lucerne, the Berner Oberland, Zermatt, and Montreux, the Riviera area there. There's you know, they're popular, obviously, as you said, for a reason. They're very beautiful. They've got so many things for visitors to see and do, but if you don't like crowds and you're visiting over the summer months, perhaps it's, yeah, best maybe not to, to go to those places during those times.

Kathrin: And would you maybe just briefly be able to tell us what they are or what you can see there? So for example, Lucerne, why is it so busy? What's, what is it?

Carolyn: I think in, in one sense, it's, it's proximity to Zurich. It's, you know, just 45 minutes from Zurich. So obviously that, that is very attractive. There's so many mountains that you can do excursions to easily from Lucerne, Mount Pilatus, Mount Rigi, etc. and then you've got the medieval old town, the Chapel Bridge and you know, just the buildings there are just magnificent. And of course, It's on Lake Lucerne, so it's got everything around you, all in one.

Kathrin: Typically Swiss, kind of.

Carolyn: It is, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. The Berner Oberland is not too far from there.

I mean, it's a couple of hours train ride from Lucerne but again, just the mountain scenery, like you're right in the heart of the Bernese Alps there. And many of your listeners have probably heard of the Jungfraujoch, which is one of the most famous mountains in Switzerland. So you're right there in the heart of that.

Again, you've got lakes and just, I don't know, it's the, the chalet sort of style buildings in the mountain villages. So that makes that really attractive. Zermatt, of course, famous for being the village at the foot of the Matterhorn, and it's probably more well-known as a ski destination, but it's equally as popular in summer.

Again, you've got those typically Swiss wooden chalets with the backdrop of the Matterhorn. You know, you can't just help be, I don't know, mind blown every time you look around and you see that massive pyramid-shaped peak there looking over you. So, that's very spectacular.

Kathrin: It is, yeah.

Carolyn: Montreux is yeah, different again. You've got a more Mediterranean sort of climate there. Again, it's on a lake, beautiful Lake Geneva, and I really like the promenade that runs beside the lake there from Montreux. You can go in one direction to Vevais, a smaller town, and then you can go in the other direction to Chateau Chillon castle there, right on the edge of the lake.

So yeah, Montreux, very different. Again, you can still see the Alps. They're not quite as close as some of those other destinations that I mentioned, but it's still, yeah, the scenery is still magnificent.

Kathrin: So definitely places worth visiting if you can. Can you tell me maybe what the best time would be to visit them? So what are the main tourist seasons to avoid and what seasons are quite good to go then?

Carolyn: Mm hmm. Well, June, June through to the end of September are really the busiest sort of months. Apart from people that are going sort of on ski trips, I guess. But for most tourists, those summer months are the busiest.

And I would say July and August are particularly busy. I tend to go in June And it's usually not too busy, but you do sometimes if you're going to some of the main attractions, you might have to queue to buy a ticket or you know, to get into the attraction. So do keep that in mind.

If you don't like queuing and you don't like crowds, I would say definitely, avoid July and August if you're going to any of those popular destinations. If you're not a fan of the cold, then you probably shouldn't visit between November and March. Unless you're wanting to go skiing or you're prepared to stay indoors most of the time.

Because it does get quite cold particularly in the mountains. Although as you obviously know in the lowlands, snow's probably less common than it was, you know, some decades ago. So, I think going to the cities, you're probably not going to expect a lot of snow over winter. Would you say that's correct?

Kathrin: Yes, it really just depends on the year. I mean, some years you can still get quite a bit of snow and then other years, practically none at all. So yeah, you just have to sort of maybe look at the forecast or, yeah, it sounds like May and October would be particularly good months to go because in May, Switzerland is already quite warm in a lot of places.

And in October it can still be very nice and also those spring and autumn months can be very scenic, you know.

Carolyn: That's right, with all the flowers.

Kathrin: Yeah, so actually those would be good months to go.

Carolyn: Yeah, the only thing I would recommend if people are wanting to visit in May or October is just to check that the cable, the mountain railways are operating.

Okay, for people that are planning on visiting in spring or in autumn, as you said, in May or October, I would suggest that they just take note that sometimes some of the mountain railways close for a maintenance period in those shoulder seasons. So if you're planning to do a mountain trip at that time of year, do just check that it will be operating because it, you know, it would be very disappointing to get somewhere and realise that that mountain that you wanted to go and visit was unreachable for the next few days or couple of weeks.

Kathrin: Yes, absolutely. That's a great tip. And let's talk about some other beautiful places that are maybe a little bit less touristy. So, I know that some of our listeners probably can't avoid tourist season because, for example, they have set holidays for children, but they might still want to experience that really authentic Switzerland without all the tourists. So, what might some beautiful places be, maybe close to Zurich that are worth visiting?

Carolyn: Well, close to Zurich one that comes to mind straight away is Schaffhausen and a lot of people, a lot of international tourists, particularly head in that direction to visit the Rhine Falls, but I don't think a lot of them take the time to actually go into Schaffhausen and have a look around and it really is a beautiful city. The buildings in the old town with the architecture and they have those Oriole windows that sort of come out. They're like a bay window, I guess. They're just beautiful and the facades are very, very nice. Also around, or just beside the town, which the Rhine runs along there's a fortress which is worth visiting and you can get beautiful views over the vineyards and the old town from up there. So Schaffhausen is, yeah, definitely worth a visit. Lake Constance or Bodensee as I think it's officially called in German.

Kathrin: That's right.

Carolyn: It borders three countries and Switzerland is one of those. So, and there's a few towns along the lake that are very nice to visit.

You can take a boat trip and go across to Germany. So that's something, yeah, quite unique as well. Another area that I just absolutely love is Appenzell region. So it's much more rural than what you will find in all those other places that I've already mentioned. I just love the really traditional farming kind of communities that are there. And it's, yeah, it really is, I don't know, it's a much slower pace. It's probably not the Switzerland that you think of when you look through the tourist brochures or the travel guidebooks, but it really is, yeah, very, very special.

Kathrin: It is, isn't it? I was actually there a month ago and it's nice if you go from one side to the other of the Appenzell because you see kind of the change in the architecture as well, that the houses are a little bit different. The old farm houses, they look very different also from the ones in Bern, for example. And then we stopped at a little restaurant, a very rural one. And it's very interesting. You don't get this really anywhere else in any of the touristy areas, but they basically had one menu. They were like. "We're serving this... is that okay?" And you just basically had to eat what they had and they didn't give you any options. So, you know, it felt, and you know, nobody spoke English or anything. So very much. If you want traditional Switzerland, then that is the perfect place to go.

Carolyn: Yeah, and the last time I was there, we were so fortunate, and this was just by sheer luck, that we happened to be staying near Appenzell at the time of the I think it's biannual Yodel Fest.

And so the, the whole town was just, you know, thick with people wearing their traditional costumes and around every corner there was a group of people yodeling and around the next corner there was another, you know, few men playing alphorns and oh, it was just amazing, and that was a really incredible, I guess, cultural experience that we just happened to stumble across.

Kathrin: Yeah, that's right. Are there any other places you would like to recommend?

Carolyn: Uh, I think the Emmental Valley also, it's not too far from Zurich. And it's very, again, you've got the more, the open sort of fields with the Alpine landscape in the distance. Very famous for its cheese, as is Appenzell, of course but the, the Emmentaler cheese, there's quite a unique aspect, I guess, of Emmental Valley. On a lot of the hills, there is just one tree planted.

So that is something quite, yeah, quite unusual to see as well.

Kathrin: You know, there's, I think there's a reason for that. I have family there and I went for a walk with one of them the other day and she pointed that out and she said it's something like, the tree is something like the spirit of the hill, or so I think they do that on purpose, or they think it's some kind of natural phenomenon that there's always one tree growing on each hill.

Carolyn: Yeah, no, it, it looks really, really good too. I mean, I've seen, yeah, in, in, if you see photos of it, it's, yeah, it's something, yeah, very, very cool.

Kathrin: Yeah, and it's a cultural or even spiritual thing. Actually,

Carolyn: I didn't know that.

Kathrin: Yeah, I didn't either until last year. Yeah. So in terms of things to do in Switzerland. What are some of your best experiences or most amazing things you've done in Switzerland?

Carolyn: Well, one of the things that I always love to do is a mountain excursion, and for a long time I struggled with this because I'm actually scared of heights, so going up in a cable car was a really big deal for me, and I put it off and put it off for a long, long time, but if there was ever an option to go on a, you know, like on a cogwheel train or a funicular, that's no problem. I can handle that fine. But it was actually just being in a cable car and suspended above the ground kind of freaks me out a bit. But a few years ago I decided that you only live once, and if I don't do this, I'm going to miss out on so many amazing experiences that I just have to do it. So, I think in the last few years, I've like, broken all records and been on every possible cable car that I could. So that's always a highlight. Going up to a mountain summit and, yeah, looking at the hundreds of alpine peaks around you and the lakes in the distance and yeah, again, it's that scenery that, that just keeps drawing me back to Switzerland time and time again.

And of course, I could never go to Switzerland without enjoying a lake cruise. And there's so many beautiful lakes that you can take a boat trip on. So there's always a different one that you can experience. And you can combine both of those with my other love of Switzerland, which is hiking. So you can, yeah, you can hike along a trail or, you know, a path and then take a boat trip back to where you started from.

Or you can take a cable car or a cogwheel train up a mountain and then hike down or do it the other way around as I think the Swiss tend to prefer. Is that right? I've been told the Swiss like to hike up and then take, take the easy way down.

Kathrin: Well, it depends. I mean, I think it's healthier for you to walk up, because I have done it the other way around where you walk down, and it's quite hard on your knees, because the paths are quite steep. And so it can get to you a little bit though the hiking down. I actually think for me, yes, it's more strenuous walking up but in terms of the joints I think it's better for you, it's less of an impact.

Carolyn: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So yeah they're probably the, the top three things that, that I always try to do when I visit Switzerland.

Kathrin: Yeah, so it's a very outdoorsy country, isn't it? You get loads of amazing nature experiences. But I think most people, most of our listeners, are looking to potentially move to Switzerland for several months or even years. So they're going to experience not just these amazing sunny days, but also the rainy seasons, the cold seasons.

So. Is there anything you can do in Switzerland, maybe on a rainy Saturday or Sunday when nothing's really, it's not possible to go up in the mountains?

Carolyn: Yeah, sure. Well, aside from sitting in a nice cafe, drinking a nice warm hot chocolate or enjoying some delicious cheese there's, there is actually quite a lot you can do.

There's museums for every kind of interest that you can think of. Castles are always fascinating to visit. Although not all of them are open all year round. But yeah, there are some that, that are open almost every day of the year. So you can always keep that in mind. And then of course there's chocolate factories or museums. Like the Lindt Home of Chocolate in Zurich or Cailler near Gruyere. And then there's even in places like Interlaken, there's the Funky Chocolate Club where you can go and you can do a chocolate making workshop. So, there's always things like that that you can do. And of course, cheese dairies to visit.

And if you do want to get outside and the rain is not too heavy, you could even actually visit a gorge for instance, Aare Gorge in the Berner Oberland. The day I visited there, it was actually drizzling a little bit, but it just, yeah, it gave it an added effect. I think it we didn't get too wet because we're mostly like sheltered by the side of the gorge.

So yeah, there's, there's definitely plenty you can do. Of course, you know, shopping and just, you know, yeah, people watching too. It's always fascinating.

Kathrin: Yeah. With shopping. I think Bern, for example, is particularly good for rainy day shopping because you've got the arcades over the buildings. So you're never going to get wet. You can walk along in between the shops and you're actually going to stay completely dry. So that's always a popular one.

Carolyn: Yeah, that's right.

Kathrin: Do you have any money saving tips for people who are travelling around Switzerland and maybe visiting for a few weeks? And as we all know, Switzerland is one of the most expensive destinations. So, what can people do to reduce their costs?

Carolyn: Well, there are quite a few things. Public transportation is a perfect way to get around Switzerland, but if you're buying tickets individually for every trip that you want to take it can become quite expensive.

So buying a rail pass is a great option because this acts then like just a hop on hop off ticket for all the public transport in the country, if you're buying a Swiss travel pass and there are also regional passes that are available as well. Another thing I always suggest to travellers is to take a reusable drink bottle and fill it up for free at the thousands of fountains that you can find across Switzerland.

So it's always a good tip. Buying some picnic food from the supermarket is another tip. Just to save some money, as we know, eating out in restaurants and cafes can be quite expensive. So if you can save some money by putting together your own picnic that's always a good option as well.

When it comes to accommodation, sometimes staying outside the, the hot spot as we might call it can save you some money. So for instance if you're wanting to visit Zermatt, you might find that accommodation in Tasch, the next village, is cheaper, so you can save some money that way as well.

And getting back to our reference there about hiking and, and taking the cable car one way, well, instead of buying a return ticket, why not just buy a one way ticket, save yourself half the cost, and hike either up or down the mountain.

Kathrin: Yeah, those are great tips. And I especially like the one about not staying in a hotspot because public transport makes it so easy to get around that you really don't need to stay in the expensive areas.

Carolyn: Yeah, exactly. And you can sometimes be there in 10 or 15 minutes because as you said, the transport connections are so good.

Kathrin: Yeah, exactly. And one thing that you often recommend on your website is tours, like guided tours. So would you recommend that people take a guided tour around certain parts of Switzerland? Or is an independent trip also equally nice?

Carolyn: Look, I think independent travel is so easy in Switzerland, and that's because of the public transport system. And because that most of the people that you're going to run into, especially in the touristy destinations, speak English. So, if you ever get stuck or you're looking for directions, there's going to be someone there that you can ask.

So, buying a rail pass and, and doing your own independent travel is very, very easy. But, of course, there are people who perhaps don't have the time to research their itinerary or prefer some company and, and the experience that a local can give them. So there are tours available as well.

And, and that may just be a day tour that you want to do, say from Zurich to one of the mountain resorts or you know a tour out into the countryside to Appenzell for instance, but then you can get tours that go for a few days up, up to a couple of weeks as well. And, you know, there's everything, there's the, the tours, which have sort of 40, 50 people on a, on a big coach, right down to a small group tour that a group of 10 or 12 are guided around on the trains.

So there's sort of every possibility available.

Kathrin: Yeah, I, I like the idea of doing your independent trip, but then maybe joining a tour for one or two days, especially sort of if you're travelling alone, that could be very nice.

Carolyn: Yeah, it is. And I've done this myself. I was in Switzerland for work a few years ago, and I was sort of between the couple of events that I had to attend.

I had a day spare. So I ended up booking a day trip from Zurich and that was the first time I went to Appenzell. And it, yeah, it was great because I got to meet other people. The tour guide had so much knowledge that he was able to share with us. And I didn't have to worry about, you know, navigating the public transport to get there by myself. So, yeah, it was a really good option.

Kathrin: Yeah. It sounds great. So if someone's coming to Switzerland, they might want to live there in the future, but they only have a few days. They don't have time for a lengthy trip. What one place or experience would you recommend? If it's the first time in the country.

Carolyn: Wow. If it's the first time in the country, they've got to go up a mountain somewhere. I don't care which one, any one, because they're all so different and they all offer something very different to each other. So for instance, if you want to see snow all year round, Mount Titlis is a great option because there's a glacier up there that you can see and you can touch snow all year round. If you want to enjoy some activities if you're into sort of Zip Lines and riding mountain carts and all that sort of thing, Mount First near Grindelwald offers all that as well. And then you've got places like Glacier 3000, which is over sort of between Gstaad and Montreux.

And there you can walk across the I think it's the world's highest suspension bridge that connects two mountain peaks. So, you know, there's something quite different for everyone. So, yes, you can't visit Switzerland without doing a mountain excursion.

Kathrin: Excellent. Yeah, I totally agree. And I think locals like myself, when I used to live there, we don't do nearly enough of that. You kind of, as I said, take it for granted, but definitely it's just an amazing thing to do. And then of course you can get there using public transport, right? Because even on the train, you might see a lot of scenic views and everything.

Carolyn: Yeah, absolutely. And the other excellent thing about public transport is that when you get off the train, if you've come from the city, the mountain railway station or the cable car station or the boat pier, it's going to be right near the train station. So you never have to go far to change from one mode of transport to another. So it's all very, very easy.

Kathrin: Yes. And they often coordinate as well. So an interesting thing about the train system is that in the bigger cities, most, all of the long distance trains go at half past and on the hour. So more or less sort of maybe two or three minutes past, and that's designed that way, isn't it? To coordinate so that, you know, if I arrive on the hour, I'll definitely have a train.

Carolyn: Yes, that's right. Yeah, it's, it's a super system. Really, really good.

Kathrin: Okay. So I think that's what covers most of it. Just to end our talk, can you tell us a little bit more about Holidays to Switzerland and how it, how you and the site can help travellers who are maybe new to the country?

Carolyn: Sure. Thank you. Well, holidaystoswitzerland.com is my website and I've got lots of articles on there about different destinations in Switzerland. Things to do, including those mountain excursions, transportation guides, planning tips, suggested itineraries. So there's lots and lots of info on there. The podcast comes out every couple of weeks and I usually chat to Swiss experts from different destinations and the public transport company and so on.

So they share their knowledge with the audience as well. And we've also got a Facebook group called Switzerland Travel Planning, which has nearly 30,000 members in it. So if anyone wants a question answered about visiting Switzerland, that's a really good place to go because we've got some really experienced people in the group who can give you some excellent advice and share their experiences as well.

Kathrin: Perfect. And how can listeners get in touch with you if they have any follow-up questions after listening to this podcast?

Carolyn: Well, I guess the quickest way to get an answer is in the Facebook group. As I said, it's called 'Switzerland Travel Planning'. We have it as a private group, so you do have to request to join, but there's a couple of simple questions to answer and then we'll, we'll admit you and then you can post away any questions you have.

Or anyone listening can send me an email to hello@holidaystoswitzerland.com and yeah, I'm happy to answer their questions.

Kathrin: All right, perfect. So that's it for today. So thanks once again to our guest, Carolyn, for joining us.

Carolyn: Thank you very much for having me, Kathrin. It's been a pleasure.

Kathrin: And thanks to you for listening. We'll include links in the show notes to our guests and to further materials about some of the topics that we've spoken about today. If you enjoyed the episode, please leave a review on your favourite podcast platform. Once again, this podcast was brought to you by Rigby. We are a staffing and project services company here in Zurich.

If you would like our help either to hire or to be hired, let us know. Best way to do that is by going to rigby.ch/apply and filling out the form. You can also sign up for our newsletter at rigby.ch/newsletter to receive our 'Living In Switzerland’ guide. We'll send you one email per month about expat- focused news and jobs in Switzerland.

So thanks. And until the next time.